Rebecca Liu-Brennan 0:06
Hello friends, I'm Amanda bar. And I'm Rebecca Lew Brennan and welcome to Dance principles united the podcast. Together, we are passionate about helping studio owners with the business of running their studio. Join us as we talk everything from marketing systems studio culture, motherhood, life and everything in between. This is the dance principals United podcast. Well, hi, friends, thank you for listening to us today. I am here with the amazing Nathan today, how are you Nathan super pumped to do a podcast with you again,
Nathan Barr 0:42
I know we're just talking. This is like a couple in like, maybe three weeks now. It's like, it's got to be a new record for us super excited to be on as we get towards the end of the year, this will be our last podcast for a couple of weeks, we are gonna go back, I was just telling you back, we've got the greatest hits of the DP podcast over the next two weeks. So this will be the last one for 2023. But then we are super excited to be back in your ears early in 2024.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 1:06
I love it. I love it. Now, Nathan, you know, Amanda and I last week did a bit of a wrap up on your year, really self reflecting and doing all the things. And so today, we thought we would talk to you guys about our top three tips for 2024. Because I think we can really self reflect and look at all the things but we've just got three tips that we think that are the three most important things that you need to really work on. Right?
Nathan Barr 1:31
Yeah, for sure. And it's all about, you know, always looking to be better. You know, there's nobody, I think that can sit there and go, yep, 100% I've nailed this dance studio thing, or I've nailed business like I'm done. There's always something that we can reflect on, that we can be better at that we need to be better at, to keep growing and improving our business. And and especially I think within our industry, I think not being stale. I think we've got to be constantly on the cutting edge we've got to be whether that's with your dancing with your customer service, but so many things within our businesses to be successful, we need to be at the forefront of things, right.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 2:06
Absolutely. I love that so much. And, and I think I love as well that you just constantly have to keep learning, you know, like we've Well, this is much funnier to you next year in eighth of business. And I am learning every single day to be better to learn all the new things, you know, it's in our world is evolving as well, like we think about, you know, we talked about this all the time. But 20 years ago, I was advertising in a newspaper, which is what we did, obviously in January. And now you know you and I are chatting about the Facebook ads. So it's like, it's just such a different world. And we always have to grow with that world.
Nathan Barr 2:42
Yeah, absolutely. So let's dive without further ado, into top three tips back what was number one that you think studios should be focusing on in 2024.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 2:52
I love that you're getting me to announce this one. It has to be knowing your numbers. And I'm not just saying it because nice sitting next to me, I'm literally saying it or virtually sitting next to me. I'm literally saying it because it was the game changer in my business and Nathe have thought about this a lot over the past week because I've really am trying to work out what I really love in my business and what I want to keep doing with it. And you know, it's pretty good for a long time to have a business, right. And so I'm trying to then really evaluate what I do love. And I do love the teaching. And it's so easy as well for me to jump into, oh, just do that for free. I'll do that for free. I did that for free, because I don't care. Because I love that teaching, getting those kids to a certain level. I'm so passionate about that. And I was never passionate about the numbers, which is why I worked my guts out for nothing. And when I started to get excited about the numbers and started to learn more about it, it's really been such a game changer, especially for my family for my life are all the things and I think that's where we really need to educate studio owners.
Nathan Barr 3:59
Yeah, without a doubt and knowing your numbers. The thing that I see it having the most benefit for as studio owners is it gives you longevity. Yep, pretty much every studio owner that I speak to none of them says, Oh, I got in to make a truckload of money. I got in it to analyse the numbers and do financial reporting and things like that. Nobody's ever said that, to me. No, don't expect them to and that's okay. But that's why I love helping break these things down. But if you give yourself longevity within your studio, you do that by being able to pay yourself a decent wage and being able to make good profit in your business. And when you do that, when you're not feeling burnt out and over it and overstressed. When you're being able to do all the things that you love to do and take home a good wage and have that profit in the bank, then it allows you to impact more kids lives and that's what you're into it for. Right? You got into it because of your dance journey and the impact it's had on you. And if you're financially stable and successful, then it's going to allow you to impact Five times, 10 times or even more the number of students than you would have if you go all in, don't value yourself, don't charge your worth and not not being able to impact as many students. Absolutely.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 5:12
And now, if you're someone like me who absolutely cannot cope with the numbers, I'm hopeless at it terrible all the things. You need someone like Nathan your corner like our tribe and SDC members have, who makes it simple for you, who breaks things down who teaches you? You know, Nathan, I think we don't give you enough credit for how much you actually help asked your owners with that side of things balance. For me, it's, it's really hard for me to understand that stuff. And you seem to make it simple for us and create spreadsheets and tables and things that we can easily input to help us know things like the profit of our concert, or you know, how much money we, you know, are bringing into our business on a weekly basis or, you know, what do you think is like the top thing that they could really like, if you had to say one thing, they should really know, what's the number one thing?
Nathan Barr 6:04
Well look, to be honest back. And I'm going to maybe even throw you into this because of one thing you just said, and it's the biggest thing for when I was teaching, because I'm not sure if people know, but I used to be a high school math teacher and and other life as well, as well as being a financial software analyst and an accountant. And I've been many, many different things. But the biggest thing that I see with studios, and it was the same thing I used to see with your seventh and eighth math students and even older math students at the time was that negative self talk around numbers? Yeah, we have this mindset around maths. And I could talk about this for years and years and years, that somewhere along the line, we get told, or we get we accept that we are air quotes, no good at numbers. And it is just it's false. Basically, you don't need to be able to be a numerical whiz, you don't need to be able to do multivariable calculus, to be able to be good at numbers in your business. But it's this, like I said, it's often ingrained in people from back in those years seven and eight math days that they are told by somebody, or somebody allows them to perpetuate that myth that they're no good at numbers, when in fact, they're really good at numbers. They've just got this negative self talk around it. So we get business owners that are telling me that they're no good at numbers. And when we dig a little bit deeper into it, and we start chatting about it, about three minutes into the talk, I can say, you know how you said you're no good at numbers, like that's an absolute, like fallacy, you're really good. And you've been able to build a successful business. So I think that the first thing that we need to get used to as studio owners, and the first thing I'd say to everybody is that everybody knows numbers, everybody is pretty good at numbers. And, guys, if you're a business owner in 2023, you need to get a little bit comfortable with it as well. And so and you can just start simple, like I said, You do not need to be a like have a math degree, to be a successful dance studio owner, and get comfortable with the numbers that you need to know, you dislike start small, you start getting to know you use a really good accounting software, like Xero, or MYOB, or QuickBooks or whatever it's gonna be. But you you start to do a few little things yourself, you get you use all the help guides or you jump in and those that are in tribe and things like that are always asking questions about how to be better at numbers, how to be able to use and like, what is the reconciliation, like, don't be afraid to ask questions, I guess is the key to it. And, and getting in and doing those things yourself. And there's different ways to be able to get comfortable with the numbers in your business. Back, you're lucky enough to have a big team around you and be able to outsource that. But you outsource it and you are always checking on it. It's not just something you push to the side. And that it's just like, maybe you get contacted by your accountant or bookkeeper every three months. Maybe if you're lucky. You are meeting with them? Is it weekly?
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 8:56
Yeah, every single week. Absolutely. Yep.
Nathan Barr 8:59
And like I said, it's just I've gone off a bit of a tangent bit of a rant here, I'm sorry. But I think it's the biggest key is 2024. I said, knowing your numbers, getting comfortable with diving into your Xero or MYOB QuickBooks, whatever you're using. Get your accountant to explain things to you Never be afraid to ask your accountant to say, Hey, guys, I don't want to understand this. Can you please explain this profit and loss thing to me? It's okay to not know things. And it's okay to ask the people that you're paying to help you to explain it. Explain it to me like I'm five. And I think that's where you've got so much stronger in a bank that I've seen at least over the last few years is you're not afraid to ask those questions and that's why you get the good answers and are able to take those results and put them into practice.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 9:44
Yeah, I actually had a meeting with my accountant and my bookkeeper the other day night like last week literally and she was going through some tax things out taxing so complicated for me, like really with all the companies and all the things as you can imagine, and I did exist believe that she was talking, talking, talking. And I said to her, I really don't understand what you're talking about here. And you know, and then she can explain it to me in a different way. And and I love that, you know, people that are out there going, they avoid their numbers, because there's a lot of studios, we find that avoid them for different reasons. One, they don't want to know how bad they're doing. Yep, that was totally me at the time. Or two, they exactly what you said, just thinking they're bad with numbers and don't want to do it. And you know, you've really got to stop doing that. And you've got to make the step. And you might find out that you're not doing as well as you'd like. But when you start checking in every week on it, it really does make you try to do better. That's the thing I find like my end, yes, I have a big admin team now, but I didn't always have that. But you know, every Monday, the very first thing my head of admin has to do is send me the numbers of the week, which means how many preschool numbers we have, how many main school numbers we have, how many class placements we have, and how much revenue is coming into the business that week, she has to send that at 9am, every Monday, and that's my start of the week. It's like, right, where are we? Where do we need to get to what are we aiming for? And I think stuff like that is just imperative for a successful business. Absolutely.
Nathan Barr 11:11
And it can be as simple as starting with five key numbers for a week. Yeah, maybe it's on a Monday, you want to see your revenue from last week, your expenses from last week, your student count from last week, your class basis from last week, and one more that I can't think of off the top of my head. But maybe that's where you start. And you start just collecting and analysing those five numbers every single week without fail. And like you said, like knowledge is power, we can only improve what we measure. And if we're just doing those simple five things, then once you get comfortable, and that's a good habit for you, then you start introducing another two or three. And that Monday report goes out to eight numbers, because you're so comfortable with it, then you're just getting better and better. You're making better decisions for your studio, better decisions for your business. And you're going to be making more money. Let's face it, that's what helps like we talked about at the start.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 12:01
Yeah, I love that so much. All right. So that's our very first thing, guys. And I think that is the most important number one thing if you're not doing it, but the second thing we wanted to talk about was marketing. Now, you know, we've talked so much this year about marketing, we've constantly chatting to you guys about it, but it's possibly a time, I feel, I don't know if you're unique, but I feel like the next few weeks, I don't feel as busy because I'm not at the studio, things are winding down a little bit, you know, I'm gonna be on an aeroplane soon. And that is time when you can actually kind of get your head around things. I feel like when it's concert time, or it's end of year, it's crazy time or even really any time in the studio is crazy, actually. But you feel like you're constantly busy. But this is a time where we can self reflect and looking at our marketing from a different perspective might be a good idea. Yeah,
Nathan Barr 12:50
that's what we talked about having a bit of a marketing audit. And then within that audit, once you're sitting back and you're like, look back through the last year, like, if you do run Facebook ads, I look back through your last 12 months of Facebook ads, or if you did a shopping centre promo, like see if you can dive back in and see exactly what happened around that. Where did you spend money in the last 12 months? on marketing? And number? I think the biggest question you can ask, can you measure the results from that money you spent? Because that's the biggest thing we're talking about with our tribe members, studio growth club members. They're throwing all these great marketing ideas out at us. And my first question is, yes, that's great. But how are you going to measure the results? How are you going to measure your return on investment? If you spent a shopping centre promo is going to be really expensive for a lot of people, once you factor in staff and things like that those things could cost you four to five grand, we know that they can be super successful, but how successful and how do you measure it? So I think it's super important within the audit to go back and do that. And then just have a rough plan for the next 12 months. We're not big like on really complicated 12 month forecasts or things like that, Becca, we'd like but No, neither of us ever do that in our businesses. But we would always have a rough outline sort of back of an envelope type thing that we then put on a Monday board or an Asana board or things like that.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 14:10
Yep, absolutely. And I think you know, we're not trying to say to you guys to completely rebrand everything and put lots of money into that. But I think that's self reflection on where you've done some marketing where it's gone, right where it's gone wrong. It still goes wrong for me on multiple occasions. And other times it goes really right for me, but I wanted to talk and I know I harp on about this a lot but I'm still getting studio owners who are saying that they are not doing social media marketing. And I had a call the other day with someone that's not from tribe a studio growth club, Nathan that to, you know, a new client potentially coming in and they were saying they were trying to grow a new programme and it didn't work. And so I asked them what they did to grow the new programme and they said they posted consistently on their Facebook page and my answer to them was cool. How many times? Have you seen the karate school down the road post their organic posts this week? Zero. Cool. How many times you've seen the swim school down the road post their organic posts this week? Zero. Exactly. No one is seeing your organic posting. And I'm such a big Hopper honour about these because it was a game changer in my business. When I started marketing consistently on Facebook, and I'm not saying to spend a heap of money, but to consistently spend money, you get rewarded. And that's when those trials start coming in. Right.
Nathan Barr 15:30
Exactly. And like, Yeah, sort of tying back into the Know your numbers part of it as well back like we used pausing in one of our tribe calls the other day as an example, in that just one campaign that you guys had run this year, you'd spent $4,000, on Facebook marketing, just for one campaign, there's obviously lots more spend going on there. But when we like, and obviously lots of people on the call, it was like, that's a lot of money. 100% we get that we understand them, please don't think that we're saying here that you should the takeaway from this is I need to go spend $4,000 on a campaign. That's not it. But the reason that pause is comfortable to spend that is because you guys know your numbers, right? And we can track them, they've been set up in a way that you're getting the results on it. And you knew that you had collected over 200 leads from that. And based on the conversion rate, we knew that you'd enrolled 100 students from it. Yeah, yeah. So that $4,000 to get 100 students is actually really, really cheap. It's $40 Every student, and it means you're probably going to be making at least 10 times that back off. So knowing what like and again, like I said, it's tying back into the fact that you need to know your numbers around these things. And anything that you do around your marketing, if you can know what you're getting as a return from it, then it gives you confidence. Yeah, it's okay to only start out with a couple 100 bucks, awesome. Not a problem at all. But if you're starting out with $200, if you know that you enrol four students from it, then you've got a bit of an idea. Okay, sweet, that cost me about 50 bucks a student. Okay, that's really good. So now I'm comfortable to up that span and keep going a little bit.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 17:10
Yeah, and I love that it's like that cost me $50, a student that that student enrolled, I mean, our enrollment fee is $45. So you know, you've covered that student if they enrol in stay for one week. But when you look at the exciting thing of them staying for a year, that's something that you've really taught me now with all the businesses is like, look, okay, don't just look at one week or one enrollment, look at how long they could stay for, or even if they stay for 12 months, what it's actually worth to you. And I think that's really cool. But I wanted to just backtrack for a second and say, So Nathan, did the tribe call on Facebook ads, and this is what I love about you as well, you know, you're giving this value to people all the time. Like, that's what our tribe members get is actual updated. Here's what we do, here's how to do it, here's a step by step on what you should be doing. Here's how to understand that. I mean, you've got to have people like that in your corner. If you're like me, and would not have any idea how to set up a Facebook ad. There's no point in putting ice to boost posts. Nice, you would know that I used to do that. And better than nothing, you just throwing money away. That's the thing. But you know, when you actually know the things and are educated in this stuff, it's an absolute game changer. Well, yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Barr 18:21
So within that marketing audit, like I said, We'd really love you to sit back and look back over the last four or five campaigns you've ran, or marketing, like I said, doesn't have to be Facebook ad campaigns. But what's the last four to five marketing investments you've made this year? And just give them a rank out of 10? That can be like the audit, and then think about, okay, what am I going to do this year, and maybe just have a quick little back of a napkin, scribble on what you think you can spend on marketing this year? And then plan that out? And making sure you're being consistent across the whole year with that. Amazing, so that sort of ties in or not really, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna link it back in a minute. Don't you worry. But we've gone no, your numbers is the number one thing that we're looking at for 2024. Number two, we're looking at focusing on marketing, doing a little bit of an audit and planning for 2024. What's number three key thing that you think for studio owners to be focusing on in 2020? fallback? Well,
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 19:19
the biggest complaint that we get all the time from studio owners is that their staff are not working well for them that their staff are complacent. Their staff are this this off of that. And I think what I'm trying to say to all of you out there is are you need to self reflect as a leader. And I've certainly done a lot of self reflecting this year and every year. Yeah, about how I need to change where things went wrong, where I didn't communicate things well enough where I need to change the way I'm doing things so that my staff do care more so that my staff are on board more so that my staff are doing all the things and I think that communicate motion is key.
Nathan Barr 20:02
Without a doubt, and it's, it's anything you do as a leader. Like I said, I've already talked about that in a previous life, I was a math teacher. And the very first thing that I learned on my very first prac ever, was that whenever you walk out of a room, and the lessons basically gone to shit, it's so easy to sit there and point the finger at the kids are heated this and she did that rah rah, rah. But good teachers, the first thing they do is say, What did I do wrong there? And it's the same in any leadership position, especially with us, as dance studio owners, when things don't go so well. If the first thing that you can do is turn around and say, What did I do? And how could I have done differently to make that better? If that's the first question, you're always asking the growth you're going to see in yourself as a leader, and from that your team is going to be extraordinary, right? Absolutely.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 20:51
Your team also has total respect for that. When you go to your team and say, Okay, this went wrong. How can we change and what did I need to change to make it have gone right? I think that they have respect, when you're said with you're not blaming, and when you're there going, I'm a part of this problem. And I need to step up and change the way of doing things what would help you guys be, you know, whatever it might be, they love that is respect. That is total respect for you. And then you know, you might get some really great answers from I'm all about asking your team where they think things went wrong and how we can fix it. I don't know if you think that neath but I think it's a great way to go. Right, let's, let's change how we're doing things.
Nathan Barr 21:33
Absolutely. You know that I'm a massive Gary Vee fanboy. And he's one of his biggest mantras is pointing thumbs, not fingers. If you've got to go if you're pointing at yourself first, rather than, like I said, pointing the fingers at he did this. She did that. How horrible. Like, if you're pointing the thumbs at yourself, and reflecting, it's, it's the most important thing. And I think there's an important note in there, though to back, I think the reason that it works so well for you, is because you're also direct enough. And I think it's a look, it's one of those management books in the names Absolutely, like, escaping me right now. But let's start talking about that. Your staff just needs to be heard a lot of the time, it doesn't mean that they're going to throw ideas at you. And let's be honest, like they don't own the studio, some of the ideas are going to be complete rubbish. And you're going to say like, What could I have done better to make that, and you might get five answers. And you're like, for them guys are gonna be complete rubbish. So you've also got to be good at being able to turn it Oh, that's a great idea. However, that might not like. And because you're strong enough to be able to do that back and politely with empathy, push back on the rubbish ideas. But then you get the four bad ones. And then the one piece of gold comes in, and being able to harness that. And to be honest, within if there's a group of five teachers that have given, they don't need to be the one giving that answer that you've taken and run with. But if they see that one of them from the other side is giving that feedback that they've been heard, then somebody else within the team has been given something that's that the studio is now going to move forward with? How empowering is that for them? And how much more invested? Does that make them in the studio?
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 23:08
Absolutely. And it's exactly what you said, they want to be heard. They, they, when they feel they're a part of things and a part of the decision making in a part of that team, then they're going to work harder. 100%. And yeah, I love that so much they can, I think, you know, we just it doesn't, please don't think that I've always been this amazing leader, I still have so much to learn with leadership and all the things and you know, it is that constant just reviewing and reflecting and changing and doing all those things that gets you there. But to start with one thing, maybe your one thing is that you're going to start doing staff training days, maybe your one thing is that you're going to find a better communication channel to work with your team week. Maybe that one thing is you're going to make a real effort to book in our five minute chat with every team member like whatever it is start somewhere and then it will take time. No one's going to become an amazing leader overnight.
Nathan Barr 24:03
Yeah. And like said like, be it be intentional around talking to your staff around it. Yeah, I know. Like when we're at the studio. Manda knew that time, from three till 345. Was her time to be there in the studio. And would in inverted commas get no work done. But it was probably the most valuable 40 to 45 minutes that she spent for the entire day. Because it was there. It was asking the staff. How's your day been? Yeah. How's your mum and dad? How's your boyfriend? How's your girlfriend like? It's just those informal chats. Like she said she always knew it was the most valuable 40 minutes. It was and then it would just Oh, how's that? I know you had that problem with Jasmine you rang last week? How's that got like? There's just those little two minute conversations. That as you're going along just helps you build that rapport with your staff helps you feel like they're valued, that you're checking in on them, and really helps them be as invested as you want. For him to be in the studio, yes
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 25:02
also stops the disasters from becoming bigger than Ben Hur, I feel like that little bit of check in sometimes you can see something that's gonna go crazy. But you nip it in the bud straightaway, because it's at that low level. Whereas when you don't check in, it gets to the high explosive level, and then you're dealing with a whole lot more. So yeah, I absolutely love that. So I think that's pretty much our top three tips right now for what you guys could really think about for next year change for next year. And yeah, we're just always keeping on learning. I think that's the key.
Nathan Barr 25:35
Exactly. I'm like, that's like you said, that's what we do. Like, you guys invested in a coach this year, earlier on this year, you had an amazing sort of 12 week session with a coach. We've also invested ourselves in another business coaching group that we're off to the retreat for that in Bali, next year, which is going to be awesome. I'm in a Facebook ads coaching group, like all three of us are constantly learning, looking for opportunities and ways to grow. Because we know that as business owners and as leaders ourselves, that that's the only way that we can stay current and that we can stay the best version of ourselves to help others around us.
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 26:11
Absolutely. And I think surrounding yourself with like minded people who are trying to grow their business as well, who are going through the same things as you I feel like that is key to that success and to that constant growth as well.
Nathan Barr 26:24
Yep. Amazing. Well, thanks so much, guys. Like I said, this is the last podcast before Christmas and New Year's break. There's still going to be podcasts coming out regularly over the next couple of weeks, though. We've definitely got we got to the new new, no bullshit business tips ones, which I know lots of people are enjoying back they're gonna keep rolling out as well. But if you do like the podcast, the one thing that we would really love to ask you it would mean the absolute world to us. If you are listening in Spotify or Apple podcast, just quickly jump down and give us a follow and a comment on the episode. It would be like Is it rude to ask for a Christmas present back but that would be like the most amazing Christmas present. If you feel so inclined. It would save me in the world to us. It
Rebecca Liu-Brennan 27:08
absolutely would. Thank you so much guys have an amazing Christmas and we will see you in the new year.
Nathan Barr 27:14
Thanks everybody. See you later.
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