Rebecca Liu Brennan 0:02
Music. Hello friends. I'm Amanda Barr and I'm Rebecca Lew Brennan, and welcome to Dance principles united the podcast together. We
Amanda Barr 0:10
are passionate about helping studio owners with the business of running their studio Join us as we talk everything from marketing, systems, studio culture, motherhood, life and everything in between. This is the dance principles United podcast.
Nathan Barr 0:30
Hello and welcome to another episode of the dance principles United podcast. We are welcoming back the amazing Rebecca Lou Brennan from her travels this week. How are you going back?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 0:39
I am super awesome. I had the most amazing time in Europe. It was so fun. Have you ever been to Europe? Yes, you lived there. I am obsessed. Like, I've never been before, and it is amazing, like, it's so beautiful, there, isn't it? Yeah,
Nathan Barr 0:55
yeah. Absolutely. Just so different, right? It's just so old world compared to what we've got in our amazing country as well. But just Yeah, so just Yeah, I absolutely love my time over there, but absolutely love living here as well, obviously. And look, we're going to dig into that. We're probably going to record an episode while we're away, and we're actually together in the same place, in the same place this weekend, we're going to record the episode on your journey from being that, that studio owner that could, couldn't even have a night off, a single night off their studio, you know, I presume would would drag yourself in when you're on death's door because you couldn't possibly the studio would fall apart without you, to being able to this term, you know, you've had, Obviously, your amazing trip to Europe, taking your mum and Bibi over there, but also having a trip to Vegas to visit dance teacher web and then we're off to Noosa with our studio growth club members this week as well.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 1:52
I have not been at the studio very much, but yeah, I'm super pumped to chat about all the things in and around that. And I'm actually doing a session in tribe a little bit about that as well this week. Nat, just about how to step away from your studio. Yeah, absolutely. If
Nathan Barr 2:09
you've got any specific questions around that that you'd like to hear BEC discuss on the podcast episode, please drop us a DM. We absolutely love hearing from you all about what you appreciate in the podcast, because that's why we do it right, to be able to help dance studio. I help dance studio owners out. So we absolutely love to hear from you and really respond to your feedback. But today we're here to chat about it. Something that, again, we always see pop up on the troop studio pages and whatnot, is commitment levels, especially around comp teams and people asking, do you do things like get them to sign troop contracts? Do you not get them to sign contracts? How do you get in 2024 how do we get our comp students to be more committed?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 2:54
Tricky question. Nathan, very tricky question. That's
Nathan Barr 2:56
what we're here for. The big questions.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 2:58
It is a big question because I think it is hard when kids are not committed, and especially for blocking and stuff. And I know with my teachers, it's one of our biggest complaints. Um, is just kids missing, but kids get sick and things happen, and, yeah, it's, it's one of those things. I think that it's just a part of it. We don't do trip did you do troop contracts? We don't do troop contracts.
Nathan Barr 3:24
No, we never did. And look, our reasoning was that, yeah, we've talked about on the on the podcast before, the well versed, the fence analogy, and I'll try and go through it really quickly, that you know, the there's an analogy around cattle, cattle broking out in our back Australia, right? So the idea of, you've got these properties that are 1000s and 1000s of acres, right, and that you've got herds of cattle on, and it's not, it's not feasible to build a fence around that entire property. Number one, it's too expensive. And number two, all you do is spend your time driving around the property maintaining that fence. It's just not feasible to do it, and all it takes is one tiny little break in that fence for the whole thing to be rendered useless. So what people started doing was, instead of having to build those massive fences around well, what do all the cattle need? They need water, so they just make sure that they provide a big well or water source at the center of that property, and they know that generally, 98% of the cattle are going to stay close to that well, right? So, yes, you're going to lose a couple here or there. Sorry to all the animal lovers out there, but that's going to happen. But I think it's a really good really good analogy for so much of what we can do in our businesses, and especially things like this. Like yes, by not having these contracts in place, yes, we might lose a couple of students here or there, but our thoughts around it was to always create like our comp days and our. Group vibe in general was just so positive and uplifting. And those comp days were such an unmissable and positive experience for our students that they were never, ever going to miss one. And I know you guys do the same at pause, right?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 5:14
Yeah, we, we really try and make the comp days as fun as possible, and we just do a lot of little things, I know you guys do, did some really epic things, some like, one of the things we did our first comp was in June, July, and we give medals out as the kids come off stage. So it's not about where they place it. And, you know, first comps always a bit sketchy anyway, because, like, it's the first time they're doing those dances up there. We know they, you know, possibly not going to go as well as they do in your third or fourth comp. And so we just, like, have this little celebration dance that we do as they come off the stage. It's a bit of a silent dance. Looks a bit like this, if you're watching on YouTube. And then, you know, we give the kids all a medal, and we just have fun in the change rooms, and, you know, chat to them. And I don't know, I think you can make it a fun day. It doesn't have to be so serious and full on.
Nathan Barr 6:09
That's my absolutely and, like, yeah, like we've said before, like, if, if we've all seen those teachers at comps that are running around, we'll call it stressed, I think to put it nicely, but you know, projecting that that stress on to their students and making the day look unenjoyable, I presume, for the studio owner, but also for the students. And you can see the kids really not enjoying it. But look what it doesn't mean. You know, by not having contracts doesn't mean that we didn't communicate with our parents, right? We had huge amounts of communication around all those things you talked about, about the importance of being able to turn up at every comp. That means that we would have our comps listed, the weekends listed at the start of the year, so that parents could you know if they were going to be away, if we if they had a holiday booked in September, and we announced the dates in January, then they would say, Oh, hey, that September date. I'm really sorry we're away. Not a problem at all. Right, that's all you can ask for of your families, I believe. But what we would like often find is that we would also have troop information nights at the start of the year. They were really, really successful. Because what I think we don't do enough around so many things in our studio is educate parents. All the things you were talking about, Beck about when a kid's away last minute for a comp, what are all the things that you guys have to do in class as teachers? Right? Parents don't know that. Majority of parents don't know that. They don't know how much time you have to spend re blocking routines. They don't know. And when we started putting it like that and explaining, look what it actually means, guys, is that you just don't quite get as much value for your money because we're having to waste a lot of time in class going back and re block like you can see the light starting to switch on,
Rebecca Liu Brennan 7:58
yep. Funny story about that. So Tim, my partner, you know, he's in and around dance all the time, and Joshua, our little boy, started doing dance and at a different studio, because they live quite far away. He's kids. And Joshua didn't really want to do the mid year concert. And so Tim said, Oh, he doesn't have to do it. And I was like, Yes, he does. You don't understand that the kids have to be in place. He would have a specific spot on the stage, and he would have to move around the stage. And Tim had no idea of that at all, and he's around dance 24/7, and had absolutely no idea. And didn't even think that the kids have a spot on the stage and that they make patterns. And yeah, that's the thing. Like, we always think parents know, but they don't know. They do. They have no concept,
Nathan Barr 8:50
exactly. And look, if we put all those things, like, Yeah, we could have put all those things in a troop contract at the start of the year and got parents to sign it. And guys in 2024 as a parent, I'm not reading that. The majority of our parents aren't reading that. But by having things like a troop connect night at the start of the year, where you can get parents in, you know, we used to do some like a wine and cheese night, essentially, it was another great connection for people, for our families, again, that well, idea of like, once people are more invested, they're less likely to leave. And we were able to, again, just over communicate, over communicate, over communicate, without it being some big, like, onerous, like, I'm pointing the finger on YouTube, like you must turn up to every cut. Like, it creates that atmosphere of things they don't want to miss. And it's interesting you were saying about Tim, because Tim's obviously, like, Tim's a massive, massive footy guy, right? He's played, what, 7000 AFL games, very CLE like, he just, just played his grand final last weekend, right? So he is definitely somebody that is all about commitment to your team and would never drink like when you're able to communicate it like that. Well, then, of course, he understands, right?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 9:58
Yes, yeah. It's interesting like and exactly what you're saying, he would never miss a footy game. He would never miss, you know, any of those things. He wouldn't let the kids miss a footy game either. And explaining it that way to people, I know that's a way that you guys did it, that you know, just relating it to sport, which is something that everybody knows a lot more about, and giving it that parallel, I think can be really, really helpful, but I feel like people turn people away from Troop by having so many rules and regulations in and around it, and by making it such a serious, full on thing for parents, like even hair and makeup. We we're pretty not lax with it, but I always try and think with their hair, especially like they're not hairdressers, you know what I mean? And I told you this, Nathan, we've got two new circus teachers this year who are amazing, but they came to me with these crazy hairstyles for the concert that's coming up. We've got our we just do a circus acro concert, so that's coming up in a few weeks time. And these hairstyles were, like, next level. Like, I didn't even think I could do them. And I've done hair for a long time on my on BB, and they didn't think of that, you know, they just didn't think of how hard that would be for those parents who aren't hairdressers to be able to do the children's hair and makeup they wanted, like, full face paint with like, these crazy things on it. And, you know, I had to say to them, guys, I love it. It's real creative and everything. But these are parents that don't have a makeup degree. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I just think they don't. You've got to flip your way of thinking with parents. You've got to make it as easy as possible. And, and we've got over 200 in our troops this year, which is pretty epic. And, you know, and, and that's the thing, like, we've just, I'd never, I didn't have that before. I used to have four in my 10 and under troop. I remember, this is probably about 12 years ago, four kids, okay? And now we've got, like, 34 and, and the thing is, I've just stopped being so crazy with the hair, the makeup, the rules, the, you know, they must do 2000 classes a week. That's another one that you notice, like the the biggest thing that I did was I stopped making them do so many classes per week. And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but they do the classes anyway. That's the thing. Like, there's barely any of my troop kids that only do those two classes. And if they do, only do so, they do an hour and a half of technique, and then they can do jazz troop, right, or an hour and a half of technique, then they can do lyrical troop. So, but if they do, they only do that for a year, because then they're like, oh, that kid's getting parts because they're doing acro tricks. I want to do acro. Then they want to do circuits. Then it's, it just happens, rather than you forcing it to happen.
Nathan Barr 12:45
It's the well in the the well and the fences. Analogy again, right? Like, and that, you know, I've gone going, like, analogy crazy. Like, the rising tide lifts all boats, exactly like you said, like, when you don't force it, it allows people that on ramp, especially at our younger troops, because I understand, like, if a Yeah, you've got a relatively new student coming into dance, or somebody transitioning from preschool into the that six and under troop. In preschool, they've done two or three classes a week, and then suddenly, you know, they're pretty talented. You're like, oh, maybe they should join troop. And they see this big, long, demanding looking list of, you know, eight classes a week, and this that and the other but so they opt out because, like, oh, that's probably too much for them starting school. But if that on ramp is three classes, pretty similar to what they did last year, they do that for the first term, and exactly like you said, they see how much fun they're having, how much you know, they're able to handle it with school, and then they just end up adding classes, adding classes, adding classes, and you end up with 34 students doing six to seven or even eight classes a week, rather than that crack group of 10 students that do the seven or eight classes a week. How much more money is that in your pocket, too?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 13:56
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And I think I wanted to talk about, like, the makeup rule as well. You know, like, I another thing when I had BB and I was talking to one of our SJC members about this on our one on ones this week, Nathan, they don't have kids. So I think it makes a big difference when you don't have kids to having kids. So when I didn't have kids, I used to put so many rules in place. It was ridiculous. Then I had BB, and she hated getting her makeup done, and I'm trying to put mascara on my four year old, who's blinking and crying and and I was just that was a moment for me to go this. Why am I making parents do this like this is ridiculous. So I now have the blanket rule that from six and under, including our six and under tube kids, they don't have to wear makeup if they want to, they can. And we have some comp kids, you know, who are quite high end and they want to put the makeup on, fine. But if, and I know I spoken to Amanda about this, and she said sassy was all about the makeup like she loved it, yes, right? Thank
Nathan Barr 14:55
God, because if she wasn't, I.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 15:00
Well, the thing is, you can't predict that, though, right? So, you know, Bibi loves makeup now absolutely loves it, but back then hated it. So I think giving them the choice and saying, You know what, if your child doesn't want to do that, that's fine. And I've never it's never been written on our report that some children have makeup and some don't. It's never been even noticed, I don't think, and it's just a game changer for parents. I think sometimes you've got to make those sorts of things more appealing, because if parents find it too hard and find it really that their kids aren't having fun at a comp and you know, they're not going to keep doing it. No,
Nathan Barr 15:35
no, absolutely not. And look, I think that's, you know, you were saying about, like, before you had kids, and our perspective changed, like, Amanda's perspective around a lot of the things she asked for changed once, once we had kids as well. And look, I know sometimes if you're a studio owner without kids, you can't just magically appear them, but maybe, like, run a couple of your decisions past people that you know with young kids and see their thoughts on it, especially if they're outside the dance world, just for like, a little bit of feedback on how, like, on decisions that you can make that are fans first, that that are going to make your clients lives easier?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 16:09
Yes, another one is, like, we used to make the kids turn up really early to a steadford, like, three hours early. That's not a fan's first decision. Like, no, they would be, like, looking for somewhere for them to rehearse and craziness, like, absolute craziness, little things like that. I just think, why do Yeah, you just gotta keep readjusting. Re looking at things, you know, I always say, like, whenever a client emails and complains about something, I always try and see it from their perspective, and go, Yeah, okay, that probably wasn't smart for them to be there three hours early with their toddler and then having to watch other people's troops and, you know, their kids not on for ages and they're bored and not fun? No, absolutely.
Nathan Barr 16:54
And that's like, yeah, SAS loves dancing when she's doing it right, but getting her to sit through a comp day or in a set for day to watch her sisters, because we've got the three girls, is is, like, it's hell on earth. Basically, if I had to, like, if she wasn't dancing that day and our family got out, like we had to turn up three hours early to watch one of the other girls, I wouldn't be able to come. I really want to. I really want to go watch Sally or GG dance, but I'd miss out on that opportunity because of of those rules that were put in place.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 17:29
I think sometimes we make rules for the sake of making rules. I also wanted to tell you, Nate back to the educating of parents. So we had our mid year kind of concert, which we call a pep rally for our troop kids, and I knew our ballet numbers, they're always the lowest, right? I mean, I think ballet for well, at my school anyway, because we're not a ballet focused school. We have good ballet, but we're not ballet focused just solely on that. So I got up and spoke about the importance of ballet. Why it's important that any cruise ship audition now you have to do ballet first. How it helps them with their balance, with their technique, with all the things. And so guess what happened? After that pep rally, we had an influx of enrollments into ballet because parents didn't know that. And I even had parents come up to me and say, I didn't know that about ballet. So you've when you've got those big times like that, be it a troop day where you're educating parents, or be at a concert where you can educate parents, that's the time to really chat to them about what's important and why it's important. Because they don't, they don't get the why? No,
Nathan Barr 18:33
absolutely. So I think that's like, I think that's basically, I think that's a good point, good point for us to wrap up, because it's sort of the core of everything we've talked about today, is that making sure that the key to making sure that you've got that increased buy in or that commitment to your troop teams, is all about communication and education with parents. Is not necessarily about contracts and consequences around it, but it's about making sure that you communicate. You communicate a lot in different ways, all the way through the year, like you can't just put something out once and expect parents to read it in 2024 guys, you know what your own inbox and like SMS inbox looks like as well. You've just got to keep communicating and educating all throughout the year, and I honestly believe that is the most effective way to get that true participation or the commitment to the levels that you want.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 19:33
It. Yeah, totally agree, and it doesn't feel aggressive or angry, it feels nice. And people are going to come to things where they feel like it's free and happy and fun, they're not going to come to things where they feel like it's cranky and angry and, you know, and that. And that's definitely how we flipped it and look at our troop numbers. So I think it's the key. Yeah, absolutely.
Nathan Barr 19:54
And yeah, I think that's a really important point. I keep saying I'm going to finish, but then one more like. It those changes that you've made. You know, you've always been a high end comp studio with incredible results from like, 20 years ago, and now you're still doing it now, but by like, you know, relaxing those rules a little bit to an extent, and having that fans first attitude and the education around it, you're still having the same success at that comp level, but you're also making a lot more money with a lot more students and impacting a lot more lives, right?
Rebecca Liu Brennan 20:27
Exactly, exactly, and that that's the key. We want to impact as many lives positively as we can.
Nathan Barr 20:34
Amazing. Well, that is it for the dance principles United podcast, we are so excited we are heading up to noose or on Thursday for our studio growth club retreat, 65 amazing, positive studio owners in a room together, learning and growing together. We are so, so excited for that. And as we said at the the top of the podcast, if you have any specific questions about what you want to hear from Beck about how she managed to be able to step away from her studio at at certain times during the term. Please reach out and send us a DM.
Rebecca Liu Brennan 21:06
We'd love to hear from you. Bye, guys.
Nathan Barr 21:09
Thanks everyone. Bye.
Amanda Barr 21:10
We hope you enjoyed this episode of the dance principles United podcast. If you'd love to learn more from us, we have a special offer just for our podcast listeners, go to the link in the show notes right now to get two weeks free in dance. Principles, United tribe, we would love to see you there. You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
